Wednesday, April 13, 2011
Welcome
We hope to develop an active dialog on the works of John Calvin and his views of reform theology. Please feel welcomed to join the dialog, suggest references or just enjoy the various themes which we develop. Our home web page with references to many of John Calvin's works, published on the internet for free, is: http://ninevehpresbyterianchurch.org/npc_FP/S/Calvin%20Study%20Group/Collected_Works_of_John_Calvin.htm
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I am working on the first chapter of Book 1 of the institutes which deals with our knowledge of God and self. Without a knowledge of God there can be no true knowledge of ourself - thus the definition of true wisdom. Because we are spiritual beings as well as flesh and blood I can accept this premise and agree that it's the foundation for all other steps in the advancement of wisdom within a person. What do you think? Jim
ReplyDeleteI was reading Calvin's thoughts on grace - his premise is that it is a free gift extended to mankind, who are lost without God's intervention. God retains control of grace and it is extended, at God's personal discretion, to an individual. God does not extend grace without it being effection so we should have confidence that our journey for relationship with God will be effective. I find these thoughts quite acceptable; I wonder if folks use the word predestination, in reform theology, to describe this type of analysis however I find, in Calvin's views on grace, the preservation of my free will and God's sovranty in my life.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I spelled "effective" as "effection"
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 2 (book 1) of the institutes, Calvin feels that there is no true knowledge of God without piety. I like Matthew, chapter 6, for Jesus' definition of piety: care for the poor, prayer and fasting within the preferences, as stated, of the Father. Calvin also feels that truth and reverence are necessary for a knowledge of God. I'm reminded that both old and new testament words for "fear" (Hebrew + Greek) are actually better translated: "reverence". What do you think?
ReplyDeleteDo you mean with your reference to "fear" - as those passages in the old and new testament which make reference to "fear of God"? You feel they may be more relevant to the reader if they are translated "reverence for God".
ReplyDeleteThe historic English translation of "fear" in the "fear of God" scripture passages are not incorrect, it just the more literal translation of "reverence" rather than "fear" can provide insight into the development of an increasingly in-depth relationship with God. I've found that these verses, when converted to reverence for God, seem related to a better knowledge of God. If you consider human relationships which develop an increasingly in-depth knwoledge and appreciation of each other - it's much more the feeling of reverence rather than fear which support that growth. I like the way Calvin has linked the concept of trust and reverence with piety in chapter 2 of book 1 of the institutes. We need to focus both on God and our "neighbor" if we wish to develop an increasingly in-depth knowledge of and relationship with God. What do you think?
ReplyDeleteok - I understand what you're saying - I'll review some of those verses and the context that they're found in - thanks
ReplyDeleteCalvin has titled the first book of the institutes: Knowledge of God; I've been reading chapter 3 and he has references to Plato, Cicero and Plutarch - all really good statements and thoughtful. In this chapter, Calvin's focus is that all men have an innate knowledge of God and that religion, in any form, is not arbitrary but rather our internal to learn about, know and worship God. A lot ot think about along the the quotes from those three Philosophers, though it might be a stretch to call Cicero a philosopher. Embedded in this dialog, Calvin also adds his thought that man cannot attain "actual goodness" as this is an attribute of God; I feel this thought fits in this dialog though seems more like a stepping stone to another dialog. What do you think?
ReplyDeleteI like what you say however I feet that Calvin's point, in this chapter, is that all men have an innate "awareness" of God and that "knowledge" of God is what we seek though "religion" which is our journey to seek, know and worship God.
ReplyDeleteIagree, "awareness" is a better term - actually the term which Calvin actually uses - thanks ...
ReplyDeleteI read chapter 4 of book 1 of the institutes today - good logic, in a hard topic. Calvin, in chapter 3, establiished that all men have an awareness of God. In chapter 4, I believe his point is that God reveals himself in scripture to prevent the accidental or intentional fashoning of our conceptualization, of Him, incorrectly to our own preferences. He frames the dialog around the "wicked", who Calvin defines as the people who consciously turn away from God. They cannot deny their awareness of God so they supress this awareness in various ways which deny His power: that is through: hypocrisy, ignorance, and superstition. Calvin feels the outward signs of this state, in a person's life, are: pride, stubbornness and impiety. Calvin packs so many thoughts into a short dialog, I think I may spend a day or so just reviewing this chapter - though there's no missing the point he has defined. I'm brought to mind the Fruit of the Spirit as Paul defines in Galatians. Perhaps, if we or another person or a group of persons are responding to her/his/their awarness of God within the proper context of God's revelation in scripture then the Fruit of the Spirit will be present,as defined in their relationships with: God, the world at large and also in their close relationships. What do you think?
ReplyDeleteDo you mean in your last section on the "Fruit of the Spirit" that a person or persons who are responding to their awareness of God, within God's revelation through scripture, will display the Fruits of the Spirit because of the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives?
ReplyDeleteYes, the Fruit of the Spirit are nine obserbable consequences of the Holy Spirit moving in my or another person's life. Note that it's not "fruits" but rather "fruit" - it all comes together when we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in our lives. The "wicked" may be good to those who are close to them and thouse whom they choose however this is not the Fruit of the Spirit which is observable in the faithful who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit: joy, love, peace (our personal relationship with God), forbearance, goodness, kindness (our relationship with the world), and faithfulness, gentleness, selfcontrol (our relationship with those who are close to us). What do you think.
ReplyDeleteOk - sort of goes along with Calvin's quote in this chapter (4) from Lactantius: (Instit.Div. lib i. 2,, 6,) "No religion is genuine that is not inaccordance with truth."
ReplyDeleteI had to look him up in a wiki - Lactantius, a Latin-speaking native of North Africa, was a pupil of Arnobius (according to Methodius, Chastity 9.2) and taught rhetoric in various cities of the Eastern Roman Empire, ending in Constantinople. He wrote apologetic works explaining Christianity in terms that would be palatable to educated people who still practiced the traditional religions of the Empire, while defending Christian beliefs against the criticisms of Hellene philosophers. His Divinae Institutiones ("Divine Institutions") is an early example of a systematic presentation of Christian thought. He was considered somewhat heretical after his death, but Renaissance humanists took a renewed interest in him, more for his elaborately rhetorical Latin style than for his theology.
I'm still working on chapter 4 of book 1 - I think what Calvin is saying around all the stuff about the "wicked" is that we may have an awareness of God however we cannot and will not come to any true "knowledge of God" without God's involvement - we are not capable of it ourselves - thus the need and desire to seek relationship with God so we can know Him; and with reference back to chapter 2 - God requires us to seek Him and our neighbor to actually come to a knowledge of Him. I think I have that right - what do you think?
ReplyDeleteI've been reading chapter 5 today (book 1 of institutes) today some wonderful quotes from Virgil and Agustine however a stark analysis by Calvin of the nature of man in light of God's revelation of Himself in everything created. Calvin's argument is that "all fall short" and it's a convincing dialog. It's a long chapter with a lot of considerations however the central point is the same so I think I'm going to move onto the next chapter.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like I've been working on Chapter 6 of Book 1 for about two weeks now ... this seems to be the first pivot point in Calvin's thesis on "God our Creator". In the previous five chapters he established that all have an awareness of God and essentially that "of ourselves" we cannot cannot come to a true knowledge of God, we otherwise wander into ignorance, superstition, forgetfulness and generally are just inclined to error. Book 6 then introduces us to Calvin's analysis that God has provided devine scripture as the means to know God. God makes Himself "known" in scripture so that we may know Him.
ReplyDelete